Curse

Sleeper Service · Aug 17, 2007, 04:37 AM // 04:37

lol, funny people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Seraphim

Just wanted to make a quick little interjection regarding the appearance of Jora... a Norn warrior. (Jora meaning Lord in Norwegian) Typical "Viking" appearance tends to lean her outfit and appearance towards a rather revealing end. I'm not saying there should not be more conservative options for you, just simply the characteristics of the Norn race suggest that they would be rather "revealing" in their clothing choice.

erm... warrior? hand to hand combat ..in the mountains? tends to be cold. last time i checked "vikings" were not running round nearly stark naked in the snow.

to the OP, this is a problem that you will run into with most "Fantasy" setting media.
The movie industry is greatly responsible for this (conan, red sonja...) and even though it was not (always) the case in the novelised form, the representation of the main protagonists in cinema needed to be erm...appealling to the target audience (young males).

Hollywood being the main cultural influence in the US we can now see the results of this in other media formats. People are simply not going to understand why it should be any differrent unless they stop to think about it *which they wont because its normal to them and thus; expected.

Im sure the artists in Anet know this, but so does marketing. You are fighting a battle that is already lost, you have every right to be offended by it..well not offended more like irritated im guessing from your general tone, and i fully support your endevour to raise the issue with Anet. But they they know, and they wanna make money.

Sad to say you are probably going to be flamed over and over with the same kind of "dont like it dont play" or "omg freedom" arguments.

Don't get me wrong, im a guy and i have a female char because it's nicer to look at. But i do wish that her so called "armour" didnt have so many HOLES in it....i mean shes fighting Demons and monsters who basically want to kill everyone on this plane of existance. In the freezing snow or on an exploding volcanic island. wearing.....clubwear? (while my warrior friend there looks like Iron Man or one of the power rangers in full battle armour).

Lilanthe · Aug 17, 2007, 04:40 AM // 04:40

The funniest thing though, is that in the Nightfall Making Of, one of the armor "creator" interviewed was a woman, and she was saying how she loved working on female armors (and on her monitor we could see an elementalist model, I don't remember which armor though... I think it was 15k sunspear)

Dervish Gnome · Aug 17, 2007, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

To summarise: We're not saying that other players should be denied the choice to have characters in scanty outfits - just that everyone should also have the choice to have characters that are properly dressed as well - and that this should be the case from the first time they upgrade from starter armour.

draxynnic,

Thank you kindly for wrapping up this entire thread into that paragraph. That is what I am trying to say. Don't deny the other players of the more showy armor, but at least have the option of a more conservative look.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

You are just overreacting, its true

Again I will say that overreacting would be me demanding that all revealing armor be banned/done away with/deleted/ect. Instead I am simply asking for other choices to be added. Is there something wrong with wanting a character that actually looks well protected?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

But these cousins of yours, I do wonder if you will take them to a fashion show where largely, a lot of skin is shown, yet they are at the HEIGHT of the female fashion.

Considering that my cousins are male I doubt they would show interest in a fashion show. I happen to find many fashionable items that don't scream "Look at my skin and my neatly pierced belly button."

Curse You,

If it will help you understand better what I'm trying to get at then completely remove the children playing guild wars from the equation. Now allow me to say this...

I'm a female gamer who doesn't like to dress skimpy, has self-respect, and prides herself on being more proper than not. I would like my character to transmit at least one of those things because I have received comments from male players about "Want to cyber?" "What are you wearing?" "Will you dance for me?" while I'm sitting in an outpost with other friends. I find these comments to be disturbing and annoying. I feel as though wearing skimpy armor brings about those disgusting comments and no matter how many screenshots I send to ANET I feel like nothing is done.

I have tried playing as a male character before, but he was quickly deleted simply because I did not like playing as something I'm not. I feel more attached to a character when I'm playing a character I can relate to. If I can relate to that character then I'm more likely to continue playing under that character. That may sound strange, but it's the way it goes.

Curse You · Aug 17, 2007, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dervish Gnome

Curse You,

If it will help you understand better what I'm trying to get at then completely remove the children playing guild wars from the equation. Now allow me to say this...

I'm a female gamer who doesn't like to dress skimpy, has self-respect, and prides herself on being more proper than not. I would like my character to transmit at least one of those things because I have received comments from male players about "Want to cyber?" "What are you wearing?" "Will you dance for me?" while I'm sitting in an outpost with other friends. I find these comments to be disturbing and annoying. I feel as though wearing skimpy armor brings about those disgusting comments and no matter how many screenshots I send to ANET I feel like nothing is done.

I have tried playing as a male character before, but he was quickly deleted simply because I did not like playing as something I'm not. I feel more attached to a character when I'm playing a character I can relate to. If I can relate to that character then I'm more likely to continue playing under that character. That may sound strange, but it's the way it goes.

I play mainly female characters. The only time I have ever had people "coming onto" my female players was in Pre-Searing, when I used to play on American Servers. After I changed to European Servers, I have never encountered someone who wasn't joking (and everyone knew) when they "came onto" a female character.

Unless they are saying things that are actually offensive (the "C" word), then it's just a case of an immature player.

If you want less revealing armour, there are options out there for every profession. If you find Paragon armour too revealing, I can't help but think that you're either looking at different armour from me, or your morals are set way too high for a video game.

If you think this is too revealing, you should go to a High School in September and look at what most girls are wearing.

Dervish Gnome · Aug 17, 2007, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

If you think this is too revealing, you should go to a High School in September and look at what most girls are wearing.

Curse You,

No, I do not think that is too revealing because I can't see "side boob" nor is her upper thigh closest to her southern area clearly show.

You all are more than welcome to mock, flame, or tease me about my request. It really doesn't bother me. I actually find it very flattering that you are all taking time out of your online fun to post in this thread. So by all means...continue.

DreamRunner · Aug 17, 2007, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dervish Gnome

draxynnic,

Again I will say that overreacting would be me demanding that all revealing armor be banned/done away with/deleted/ect. Instead I am simply asking for other choices to be added. Is there something wrong with wanting a character that actually looks well protected?

Considering that my cousins are male I doubt they would show interest in a fashion show. I happen to find many fashionable items that don't scream "Look at my skin and my neatly pierced belly button."

But they ARE other choices. Nearly the whole female warrior collection has many, many nice choices. I do play a female warrior and I use 15k luxon. Because I think its a very nice armour. You also got 15k sunspear, 15k kurzick, anciant armour, prime evil armour, 15k canthan, 15k char hide armour, 15k dragon, 15k plate armour, 1.5k plate armour, 1.5k charr hide, 1.5 templar, 1.5k dragon, 1.5k canthan, 1.5k kurzick, 1.5k sunspear and FoW armour.

Thats just warrior alone. While the elementalist does more clothing that is very much so shows more skin, I do not think its skanky or skimpy. Its to do with the fact that during the long history of fantasy is that the elementalist is something slim, beautiful and is absolutely sexy. I do think that Anet was troubled by this and did try to put in more less revealing armour. eg. FoW armour.

But like this this picture? its skimpy, yes? But I am confused why it is in a fashion show at all. Is it just a one of off thing? Or a rare sight to see?

Winterclaw · Aug 17, 2007, 05:29 AM // 05:29

The OP is kidding right? At least half the female armor types don't show all that much skin. For warriors, it's glads that could be said to really show anything. Sure some necro scar patterns and monk tattoo armor show a lot, but it ain't all that attractive.

I'd say overall this game is pretty balanced in your options as far as showing off is concerned.

Curse You · Aug 17, 2007, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dervish Gnome

Curse You,

No, I do not think that is too revealing because I can't see "side boob" nor is her upper thigh closest to her southern area clearly show.

How about these?

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Image:M...gray_front.jpg
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Image:M...gray_front.jpg
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Image:M...gray_front.jpg
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Image:E...ay_front.jp g
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Image:M...gray_front.jpg
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Image:A...ndye_front.jpg
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Image:R...gray_front.jpg

If I look at all of the starter armours for each campaign, I can see at least one set that is not too revealing. The only exception to this is possibly the Elonian Elementalist starter armours. With there being at least 1 set that can be worn from the start, I don't see any problems.

draxynnic · Aug 17, 2007, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

If you're concerned about people walking in, then I don't see why your not concerned about little children walking in while their dad is browsing Playboy.com or something.

Simply put, because I don't think anyone on my side of the argument is expecting to be browsing Playboy (or the equivalent on the other side of the gender divide, if there is one) where there'll be a reasonable expectation that a small child may walk in.

Personally, for the points of this argument, I don't care if there are people out there who browse pornography while bouncing 5-year-olds on their knee and pointing out all the "good bits" as they go. Nor do I really care if there are parents who allow preteens to play GW in order to perv on the female characters in skimpy outfits. I may consider them to be irresponsible (especially the first, admittedly extreme, example), but that's their choice.

What other people choose to do is their business, and irrelevant to this discussion. Person A may not care what children see them doing, but that doesn't mean Person B who does care should be restricted to not playing certain classes unless the area can be reasonably assumed to be kid-free. Nor does it mean that Person C who gets disturbed by being hit on due to scanty outfits should have no choice but to put up with it. I know that there is the option to report players, but sometimes something isn't worth reporting but is still annoying, and having an armour option less susceptible to cat-calling means you probably won't have to go through the hassle in the first place.

With all this, ANet does actually deserve some praise - on the whole, they've only skimmed across the "when it comes to female armour, less is more" trope rather than diving headlong into it like some MMORPGs - with stats decoupled from armour skins, once you get access to the less revealing outfits you never have to face the situation all-too-common in some games where eschewing the skimpy outfit is putting your character at a mechanical disadvantage. However, there is certainly room for improvement on the gaining access side, especially with the examples I listed in my post above.

Simply making the "Tyrian" set available on Istan, for instance, would make me a lot more comfortable about recommending Nightfall to a female gamer that might be looking to play an Elementalist (unless, of course, I had a good idea beforehand that she would go for the scanty stuff), without requiring much effort on ANet's part. Sure, they'll see others wearing the scanty stuff, but with a quick donation of gold and materials they'll be able to choose something different as soon as they reach Kamadan.

tmakinen · Aug 17, 2007, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dervish Gnome

the last time I checked 10 year olds shouldn't be exposed to breasts or other various regions of a woman

Are we talking about the two approximately hemispherical things that most people get exposed to from the tender age of a couple of minutes old onwards, right after getting most intimately exposed to those even 'naughtier' regions you mentioned? And why it's ok to show male but not female breasts? You know, in many cases you can't even tell the difference ... it's a giant conspiracy to drive up demand by maintaining an artificial scarcity of supply

Ok, on a more serious vein, I agree with you that some of the available options look rather silly for being purposely titillating. When armor shopping, if possible I go for the more 'authentic' look instead of fanciful but it doesn't really bother me what (if anything) people wear in a virtual environment. And even among my little 'family', different characters have widely varying tastes. You'll never see my female ranger exposed anywhere below the eyes. My female monk shed tears of joy when she finally got the elite sunspear armor with long trousers but she's not above slipping into the old farming tattoos if nobody's around to see. My female ele absolutely loves her Vabbian dress (and thinks that FoW armor looks like some sort of retarded scuba gear) but she Does. Not. Dance. A chacun son gout

Vanessa Dwager · Aug 17, 2007, 06:58 AM // 06:58

I play a female necromancer and a female Warrior. My Warrior is fully armored, no skin except for the face show, as a right minded Warrior should be wearing considering they get hit a lot. My necromancer used to wear skimpy clothes (before she got this air of superiority about her) which makes sense because she's a magic-user. Throughout almost every game casters don't wear a lot of armor, they wear armor to dazzle since their best defense is against other magic (typically).

So I dunno, I've seen some man tit during cinematic I wasn't too happy to see. Lets fix that please >.>

Dervish Gnome · Aug 17, 2007, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

Ok, on a more serious vein, I agree with you that some of the available options look rather silly for being purposely titillating. When armor shopping, if possible I go for the more 'authentic' look instead of fanciful but it doesn't really bother me what (if anything) people wear in a virtual environment. And even among my little 'family', different characters have widely varying tastes. You'll never see my female ranger exposed anywhere below the eyes. My female monk shed tears of joy when she finally got the elite sunspear armor with long trousers but she's not above slipping into the old farming tattoos if nobody's around to see. My female ele absolutely loves her Vabbian dress (and thinks that FoW armor looks like some sort of retarded scuba gear) but she Does. Not. Dance. A chacun son gout

tmakinen,

Other peoples armor doesn't bother me because if it did I would be asking for it to be done away with.

I find the Vabbi Ele Armor to be great. I find myself reminded of Tinker Bell (possibly due to the skirt).

holababe · Aug 17, 2007, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dervish Gnome

OhCrapLions,

If you're not going to be helpful then stay out of this thread because I won't tolerate flaming from someone who can't spell "more".

You make a thread asking for opinions, you lose the right to tell people to shut up. Opinions are both good and bad. Personal attacks won't work.

I really don't care whether female characters get different armor sets that are less revealing. If ANet add it - good for them and everyone who wanted it. If they don't - I don't really mind (yes I do have female characters [2 or them])

However, I reckon male characters should get some revealing armor sets - warrior in Borat style swimsuit FTW

eightyfour-onesevenfive · Aug 17, 2007, 07:31 AM // 07:31

I fail to see the problem here. Do you not know Vallejo's Law?

All sillyness aside, I understand your point, Dervish Gnome. But I think you're taking things a tad too serious and identify yourself with your character just a bit too much. It's just a game after all, as others have said before. But then, I'm male myself.

4ssassin · Aug 17, 2007, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Sex and violence sell. Look at society. Video games are not an exception to the rule, if anything, they reinforce it.

While we are talking about being offensive, when my towering warrior brings an axe blow down onto a small, innnocent, lightly covered monk, killing her so that she lets out a moan and falls face first into the dirt, is that really more appropriate for children than something that you can see on any beach OR swimming pool OR mall OR television (or "worse" actually)? How about when my elementalist unleashes a metor on an unsuspecting female warrior as she limps away cause someone crippled her? Damn we better just take female characters out all together! Oh, wait, we can't, cause then someone would complain about it being sexist.

Please...get ahold of yourself. Its like some people can't live if they aren't complaining about something.

counciler132 · Aug 17, 2007, 09:27 AM // 09:27

As was said before, Sex Sells. It is a well known fact in America, and especially common in the media. Video Games have a long history of revealing women, and I do not expect any of that to change soon.

As for the ten year olds playing Guild Wars. As was said before, this game was NOT designed for ten year olds. Whether a ten year old can get it is irrelevant. The game clearly states that it is designed for children ages 13 and up. If a parent allows their child to play a teen rated game at the age of ten, they should not be complaining about the content being too mature. Because, in all honesty... its a well known fact that it is mature, hence the reason why it is rated 13 and over.

As for the revealing armor, I agree that there should be more sets of non revealing armor added. Yes, Jora is a blatant sex symbol. The breast armor plates, skimpy loincloth and other such things are purposely designed to elicit a positive response from male gamers. And this is also the reason she is the big marketing lady of GWEN.

Yes sexual aesthetics is an obvious factor in creating the female characters in Guild Wars. From the dances, to the basic animations, to the armors. No, I do not think any of this is out of control. And yes, it cannot hurt to add more sets of armor as you request.

I empathize with your frustration at the current situation, but unfortunately I cannot see ArenaNet changing their marketing tactics. I fully expect to see the same borderline sexist styling in GW2, though as a male gamer, I don't have quite the problem with it as you might. I won't lie.... yes it is a pleasant sight to see the back end of an Elementalist, but you know that. And that just reinforces your argument more.

In a nutshell, I agree with you about all but the ten year old thing. Good luck with your ideas, it would be nice to see a bit more maturity among developers.

iriyabran · Aug 17, 2007, 09:52 AM // 09:52

i'm a not so amused girl too

i like some skimpy armors but some are just beyond my limits xD
the lack of good armors which don't make my ele look like a s**t is the reason i'm buying fow and it's killing me
damn this is expensive i have only gloves left to buy and i feel like suiciding xD
i hope gw:en will introduce some more serious mage like good looking armor sets (i doubt it xD)
and did u notice with every campaign breasts are getting bigger and bigger
see the shing jea ele armor for example and then the istani (i remember when i saw the elems on the nf preview i though to myself "zomg she needs more inventory space to carry them around")
i don't mind seeing "oriental dancers" around the place if i have something really good and serious to wear myself (now i think ill never wear anything except fow when i get the full set...well maybe 15k geomancer if e get bored

)

Tutis Evito · Aug 17, 2007, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dervish Gnome

Dear ANET,

It has come to my attention over the course of several months that many of the female armors are a bit revealing. It would seem as though the less a female is wearing the higher the level the armor. Now, being a female gamer I find it a bit disturbing that many of the female characters are depicted as (please take now offense to this) stripclub dancers.

I had been dealing with this in my own way, mostly by playing as a Dervish, but recently I stubbled across a picture of the new Norn HeroJora. Her outfit disgusted me! It left me wondering if there would be anything left to the imagination after the release of GW:EN or GW2. Is it at all possible for you to design armor that is great looking without making me feel like I need to cover up my computer screen everytime someone walks into the room?

I really hope that something could possibly be done. Maybe introducing a "Design Your Armor" contest where contestants can design rather great looking armor without that stripper feel to them?

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying to do away with all the rather showy armor...but instead to introduce some armor for the more conservative female gamers who do not like to have warriors following them through towns yelling "Dance for me! I'll pay!!" Not to mention getting the dirty little whispers that makes a woman's spine shiver.

The Concerned Female Gamer...
Dervish Gnome

I have to agree, I am a male player, but morality is a big issue in every industry, and unfortuntly we as a world have been softened to accept more and more immorality, either on TV, Films, and Computer games, i remember when i was younger, here in the UK we had the 'watershed' on TV where before 9pm TV had to be 100% decent...nowadays this 'watershed' doesn't exist.

All we have to do to see evidence of the effect that all this exposure to sex and pornography, weather its soft or even if its scantily clad real/non real is by looking at the young generation of today and compare it to a decade or so ago. Yes the world is chnaging, but it shouldnt chnage our standards or our morality on exposure and sexual content.

Designing your own armour would be hard from a game content side of things, but i fully understand and appricate your view when it comes to this.

I'm not some old time bloke who is caught up in the past, im in my mid twenties, but i still appricaite morality and moral standards. ctr

/rambled on to long

Seissor · Aug 17, 2007, 10:32 AM // 10:32

as a female gamer who knows many female gamers none of them have had an issue with the 15k glad or 15k druid armors which are showy. and most of them own a set of the showy armor for their female toons. its just a game. besides male 15k glad and alotta paragon male armor is very showy. so i dont feel its sexist and i dont think its distgusting

ayame ftw · Aug 17, 2007, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dervish Gnome

populationcontrol,

If the game is indeed for 18+ then please explain to me why I see so many 13 and under players? Oh yes...because Guild Wars is T for teens meaning 13 and older...and yet pre-teens get ahold of the game too. So no...the game is not +18. So having standards and wishing to be more than eye candy has automatically labeled this thread as a bible group seeking comfort in Guild Wars? I know that's not exactly what you typed, but it seems to link very well.

Well, its naive to think that 13 year old should be shielded from revealing clothing. the majority of teenagers start to have sex between 13-16 years in these times... so seeing a computer generated female with little clothes will not be a big chock to most of them.

Your excuse not to play your ele is that u are not at the bone palace yet… wel get there and buy the armor…then u can run around “safly and stop this whining.

And a final note, this topic is pointless if u want to get something changed….
Everyone what’s something, people are never happy with how this game is…
U want more armor that’s not so revealing
An other person wants auction house, more skills, more hero’s , ect
Be happy with what u have/don’t have and stop making topic that will go no where
I can tell u this already…Anet doenst change anything when u ask for it
Even when there are
Multiple polls, t
Topics of 100+ posts on several forums
People threatening to leave the game

Then maybe they will consider of changing something…
In other words live with the armor chooses or stop playing the game